1And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;Speaking of Paul McCartney, it seems the popular greeting in Biblical days was "man, I can smell your feet a mile away." If you visit someone's house, and the first thing you hear is "wash your feet," those stinky tootsies are going to exit stage left, no?
2And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night.
3And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.
4But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
12And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
13For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
14And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
15And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
16And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
17And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
18And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my LORD:
19Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:
20Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
21And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
22Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
23The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
24Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
25And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
26But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
27And Abraham gat up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the LORD:
28And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.
29And it came to pass, when God destroyed the cities of the plain, that God remembered Abraham, and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow, when he overthrew the cities in the which Lot dwelt.
30And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
31And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
37And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.
38And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.
It's no wonder that Sodom can't scrape together 10 decent souls, if the best people they have are Lot and his two daughters.
O.T. family values are quite a standard to live up to: Lot offers up his married-virgin daughters to a vicious mob, and then the girls slip him a mickey and rape him. (Old joke: "I knew a girl named 'Virginia.' They called her 'Virgin' for short. But not for long!")
Maybe God should have said, "Don't look back, or I'll turn you into a fucking pillar of salt." Lot's wife might have thought twice about it. No one knows her first name (How about "Pepper"? It worked for Angie Dickinson). At least she inspired this sublime verse:
The fates are vicious and they're cruel.Finally, in another of a series of apparent red herrings, Lot is afraid of some evil in the mountains, so God saves a whole town for him. Then Lot goes and hides out in those mountains to be safe. Was he being an idiot, or was he gaming the God system?
You learn too late you've used two wishes like a fool.
And then you're someone you are not,
And Junction City ain't the spot.
Remember Mrs. Lot
And when she turned around?
And if you've got no other choice,
You know you can follow my voice
Through the dark turns and noise
Of this wicked little town.
10 comments:
I am very curious about your bible study for atheists. Do you have any reason for choosing those verses? I, in fact, have read some of the bible before and It doesnt seem like the verses your using have any signifigance or represent the message the bible is tring to get across very well. But i don't know, it seems like your putting a lot of effort into this and I really should'nt have much say, but just in case you are curious what people think I gave you my opinion. You can take it or leave it.
Happy New Years to you all!
I didn't pick which verses start the Bible.
Sorry you don't like them.
Either the Bible is true or it isn't. If these verses don't represent the meaning of the whole book, then it wasn't very well written or designed.
If God is perfect, he couldn't have asked anyone to write these supposedly contradictory verses.
I can come to other conclusion than the Bible is, at the very least, not entirely true and inevitably not the word of an omniscient god.
"I can come to NO other conclusion...", sorry.
Lots wife. Its a myth trying to explain the salt flats at the dead sea. We now know that the real reason for that is that its below sea level, owing to being in a great rift valley formed by tectonic plates, and so the sea cant escape, and evaporates, leaving salt behind.
Sodom & Gomorrah. Its about the lack of hospitality, not homosexuality. Angels don't have gender for a start. That's how it was interpreted in ancient Judaism. Hospitality is a huge thing in middle eastern culture.
Its odd how people pick and choose interpretations isnt' it. I mean, you don't see anyone using the story to advocate fathers letting their virgin daughters be raped by the neighbours (cf 19:8).
Thinking about it. Lots wife. Its kind of similar to the end of the Orpheus myth, where Orpheus is allowed to rescue his wife from the underworld as long as he doesn't look behind him to check if she's there, while they escape. No-one's really sure how old the Orpheus/Bacchus/Dionysus myths are. But its not beyond reason that something like them was around in the 7th century BC.
Who influenced who? Maybe neither, it could easily just be one of those ideas that naturally crops up from time to time, like the villain who turns out to secretly be a hero, or the
wise old crone, who turns out to be right in the end, though not in the way you predict.
Going back to the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. Really, the plot is just an attempt to explain the flats around of the dead sea. It was known as the "lake asphalt" to the greeks, owing to asphalt bubbling up every now and then; this asphalt is the reason for the presumption that "fire and brimstone" were involved the lake's history - in reality, asphalt there isnt a relic of the past, but a phenomena due to the rift valley that the lake sits above.
The sins itself. That's lack of hospitality, not homosexuality. Isaiah has it that its lack of social justice. Ezekiel has it as disregard for the poor. No mention of homosexuality or similar there.
Was the mob planning to rape the angel?
Regarding the father-daughter incest story, it's also a way of explaining the icky origins of some of the Israelites' worst enemies, the Moabites and the Ammonites.
Look at the verses in Numbers 21 which you recently posted -- the Israelites really hate these guys. Plus, the names Mo-Ab and Ben-ammi in Hebrew basically mean "from dad" and "son of my father." So this chapter is basically the Hebrew Bible's way of preemptively calling the Israelites' enemies a bunch of incest-born bastards.
Dingo, thanks for joining the Bible Study!
Posting will continue to be slow this summer, but more chapters shall be delivered!
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