In recent years, America has become increasingly religiose.
Perhaps you've noticed.
More and more, we're being told to eat scripture and die (followed by a presumably kick-ass afterlife).
Millions from our Treasury now pour into faith-based initiatives. Mega-churches led by holy men like Ted Haggard are springing up all over. Anti-gay, anti-woman, and anti-science laws are being proposed, and sometimes passed, to energize and appease the sanctimonious base. And Jesus personally told our President to preemptively attack a country that lacked the means and, it appears, even a plan to do us harm — killing hundreds of thousands of people, including nearly as many Americans as True Believers from abroad killed here on 9/11.
The Bible must be a helluva great book to be worth so much suffering.
With that in mind, we'll look at it here chapter by chapter, verse by verse, and see what all the fuss is about.
We'll use that old standby, the King James Version, which is accessible here.
When we're done with the Judeo-Christian texts, will we do the same with the Qur'an? Probably not. As long as there are death-sentence fatwas for infidels, it might be best not to mess around with the religion of peace.
Who is BS4A for?
Bible Study for Atheists is primarily for... atheists! In particular, it's for skeptics who have never read the Bible in depth.
Expect irreverence here. If you can't handle it, please go elsewhere.
That said, all are welcome to contribute comments; just don't be an annoying troll. Feel free to use this forum to argue for or against the truth and relevance of the scripture.
Your humble host here is an atheist, or at very least an agnostic++.
Do I think there could there be a God? Sure. But nothing I've read or heard about God or religion has ever sounded the least bit credible to me.
There are certainly lots of nice religious people, and religious groups do many good works. There are also lots of nasty religious people and terrible things done in the name of God.
The bottom line is that, as best I can tell, religion is founded on lies, delusion, and self-delusion. I think we're better off not living our lives based on such things, but I'm willing to devote some time to reading the book that means so much to so many. Perhaps believers will return the favor and read Richard Dawkins's excellent The God Delusion, which documents why there almost certainly isn't a God.
I expect that we will encounter many interesting, confusing, inspiring, disturbing, and controversial passages as we read on.
Sound like fun? Well, let's get started.
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39 comments:
Way cool, vastleft! Doubt if I'll have time to hang here much, and I'm pretty rusty on my Bible knowledge anyway. At least I can honestly claim to have read much if not all of it, back in my teenage years when I was forcibly dragged to church on a weekly basis.
It was that attendance, and the Bible reading, which turned me into an honest agnostic. I find it interesting that more people wind up here coming from a similar background than from the "unchurched" who attended seldom or never. They in their ignorance remain prey to evangelizers honest and otherwise, whereas we who were once exposed to it rejected it knowingly. Rather like a vaccination effect if you will.
Keep us posted at Corrente if you get any good discussions going. And if you get trolls we will come over and beat them up for you. :)
ps, boo hiss on the word-verification crap. It has rejected my immortal words 4 times now, although 2 may have been because of using preview. (scowl, glower)
Hey Xan, nice to see you over here!
I'm pretty close to totally ignorant of the Bible myself, so it will truly be the blind leading the blind here.
I hate the word-verification crap as much as anybody does, but I was getting spammed to death on VLWC without it. I could switch to moderated mode, but that means a delay for posting, which is a drag, too.
Actually, if well-read folks like you hang around here, it will be the blind leading the sighted....
I look forward to this endeavor.
One thing I wonder is how much of the Bible was even intended to be taken literally. Just because modern fundamentalists think every word is the literal historical truth doesn't mean that everyone felt that way always. I know some Greeks had more a more sophisticated, metaphorical understanding of their myths. And Jesus himself often spoke in parables (not literally).
Taking the Bible "literally" often seems just silly. What does it mean to take Song of Songs literally anyway? When the guy's describing his lover's breasts, he uses some pretty interesting similies (at least in the translations I've seen). At least I hope he was using similies, because if not ancient breasts looked pretty different.
I bet 2,000 years from now (if humans are still much as they are today, which I actually doubt will be the case), religious cultists will think that the Star Wars saga is literal historical truth, and that people who think it was just made for entertainment are perfidious infidels.
I hope this is as good as it sounds
I'm right behind first base :P
This is cool. I've been thinking about re-reading the Bible for some time now, as I get stumped on the Bible questions on Jeopardy. The stuff I remember from Sunday School is, well, the Baptist Sunday School version. I'd like a little more depth to go along with my unbelief.
BTW, another good book to read now is Karen Armstrong's A Short History of Myth. It's out in paperback now, and she takes on the Jewish/Christian/Muslim myths. I'm halfway through and it's very interesting reading.
where were you when I went to Harvard Divinity School?
Your site is not just for atheists. Great writing. Keep up the good work.
Blue Gal, depending on when you went to HDS, I was probably a few blocks away.
Maybe you got to watch some of the same crazies standing at the crosswalk between the Coop and Out of Town News, yelling about vampires and Jesus.
ACK!
King James????
If your complaint is that the Bible is inaccessible, you couldn't have picked a better version to keep it that way!
Study the New Revised Standard or the Contemporary English or even (shrug) the New International versions. Nary a prithy troth in sight!
Seriously.
momly,
For the most part, the language has been accessible enough. When it does get a little murky, I use Bible Browser (see link list on the right) to compare other editions
Raised in it; won't ever be rude, but may I disagree, sir? I have less problems with the OT than with the NT, which wasn't even started until 70 years or so after the death of Jesus - that pretty well eliminates the red letter edition, doesn't it? Got slapped for that discovery. Made no more out-loud discoveries. I believe in a Power Greater Than I and that Power has given us many prophets through the billions of years we've been here. Am I welcome?
I'm MarchDancer but I cannot sign in with the combo Google/Blogger account. Dumps me right out. Hmmm. Wonder if that's the answer to the above query?
MarchDancer,
Eventually we'll work our way into the NT. A lot of people tell me the opposite, that they think the weird stuff is in the OT, and they are inspired by the NT.
I haven't read either, so it's all virgin territory to these eyes.
I'm not sure what your disagreement is, but I'd be happy to hear about it. Welcome!
Wow. I've always wanted to read Bible (I think it doesn't deserve both a capital letter and a definite article, so we'll stick with the proper noun) but never had the patience. Leviticus is actually boring, regardless of how much I wanted to read it...
Also, I don't understand this:
"Your humble host here is an atheist, or at very least an agnostic++."
Are you implying that each time you post your agnosticism level goes up by 1? And furthermore, are you implying that atheist is the limit of this unbounded sequence? I'm confused.
Mauro,
It seems you read me loud and clear.
Well....at least you are using the King James Bible...it gives me some hope for you, as long as you do not continually approach it with your preconceptions...and even if you do, you are using the right version which is quick and powerful...it is able to cut through to your conscience.
Are theists allowed to comment here?
tracifish,
Theists are indeed welcome here, as long as they can handle the irreverence.
To reiterate from the original post:
"...all are welcome to contribute comments; just don't be an annoying troll. Feel free to use this forum to argue for or against the truth and relevance of the scripture."
Hi Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy,
Where I am it's 10:45pm, I have a headache and I haven't slept or eaten properly in three days due to a cold/flu.
... and I stumble upon your site. When I desperately need to go to bed.
You must have the patience normally religiously attributed to those saint-type people. 1800-something chapters, you said? This is absolutely brilliant.
I salute you. I shall continue to salute you with bookmarks, my return and a deep, closer reading of each of your study posts when I'm more conscious.
I wouldn't wish the agony of reading, comprehending and dissecting 1800 more of these things... but I hope that somehow you find the strength and motiviation to do so. This is all brilliant.
- Troff
While the KJV has that "I'm reading the Bible" feel, most scholars would not recommend it for cold reading and trying to understand what the text is saying. In addition, it sometimes helps to have some background on the style and historical exegesis of a document like this (regardless of your view on the content).
I would recommend "The Bible As It Was" (by James L. Kugel) for some interesting insights into the mindset of the Hewbrews who so tenaciously taught/learned the stories and text, verbatim, and debated interpretations of passages until the cows came home (when they were slaughtered, in fully kosher way ;-)).
As an interesting side-note, I generally devote 6-7 months to teaching Genesis to high school students. It keeps me on my toes. - Tim
Greetings. I will await the next version of the bible, the King George (the bush-clearing) version. With co-King Dick (the wraith-of-the-lies), he doth define and rewrite recent history as serves their purposes. I judge they may soon be revising scripture with the likes of the supreme christian fundamentalists, and their follies will emerge further. In the meantime I read works by wizard Sam Harris. I find the silmarillion of greater inspiration than the bible. We must remember the strengh of the little people, who are most of us. Celebrating simple lives is good; celebrating simple minds is not.
Raptorius, wizard of life colors, istari of common people; also Jim Parker, ecological educator
"Bible study for atheists" is a really cool and novel idea! I saw a bulletin board in my town recently that said, "An educated person knows the Bible." I know what the board's designers were really trying to say, but I couldn't agree more with their premise. Asimov said that the Bible is a great defense for atheists, and I'm all for that. Let's read this thing and make it our proof for the problems and failings inherent within Christianity. Rock on!
Patrickimo,
Welcome! Indeed, 1.5 books in, Dr. Asimov's theory is so-far holding up quite well.
EXCELLENT!
hey there! stumbled across this webbie and found this really interesting!
i'm in seminary and i also struggle with my faith in light of the whole host of -isms and warmongering that has been caused by this book. the only difference is i believe that God is real and active in today's world..
how can i say this? experience... but the theory of relativity states that you might not see this from your point of view and vice versa and i'm okay with this..
i feel that maybe we've misunderstood God and we're placing too much expectations on something we have no business reasoning with. Is the Bible the sourse of this problem? could be.. or is it the teachings based off this?
i look forward to reading your posts and hope you'd take a look at my blog as i am disecting the bible as well but from a seminarian point of view.. hope you'll check it out!
and BTW.. you might want to use the New Oxford Annotated Bible, New Revised Standard Version as it's a bit more accessible than the KJV. It's also not as conservative and agenda ridden as the NIV.
it was formed by a ecumenical group which included Jews! go figure! they get to interpret their own books! cool!
just a thought.
Luke,
I took a quick peek at your site. Glad to see at least you're approaching things with a questioning eye.
Alas, my blog-reading time is highly squeezed -- I've had to stop checking some of my vary favorite blogs so I still have time for a real life. Also, I'm taking the approach where the text is the text (and KJV struck me as perhaps the most venerable choice, with real "Bible-sounding" prose, and I'm not changing horses now), so I'm using external sources rather sparingly, and the tools on the right-hand margin have been sufficient for my needs thus far.
Interesting questioning... and interesting to see one of the parameters here is to "use this forum to argue for or against the truth and relevance of the scripture." - is that to understand then that the scripture is True and Relevant and all we can do is argue in its favour, or not, as we may feel so inclined? ... ie that our arguments don't actually change the existence of an absolute Truth, which appears what the God of the Bible is proposing? I've just read Exodus and it seems to be a blueprint for what the New testament presents itself to be about. I have to say I can see a lot of parallels with today's world too. Thinkingly ...
ex,
Welcome to the Bible Study!
Most of what I took from Exodus was...
* An exciting saga about Moses' youth, yet another story of a younger sibling moving to the fore
* The repugnant tale of God's punishing all the Egyptians (including slaves and animals) because Pharaoh won't do something that God keeps preventing him from doing
* Scads of rules, some reasonable, many more arbitrary, brutal, and/or self-serving for the deity
* Elaborate specs for a garish temple to be built and paid for by refugees in the middle of the wilderness
I do hope the New Testament finds some higher ground....
I came across this blog and thought it to be very interesting that Atheists would at least expose themselves to the Bible, being non-believers and all. I am a born again Christian and enjoy reading blogs concerning Atheist and Agnostic views of the world, life, and religion. I was born into a Southern Baptist conservative home but have found my own way, and believe myself to be more open minded and accepting of ideas and beliefs than my parents. Something I wanted to share was maybe next time, before you read the Bible, try to convince yourself that what your reading is indeed true. It might bring some of the stories to life, and increase the efficiency of your educational endeavors.
Love and peace.
JK,
Welcome to BS4A!
When I read a book, I have to let my own horse sense tell me whether the book is true (whether it be factually true or thematically true).
I have a long way to go before I can pass judgment on the whole book, but it doesn't ring particularly true to me on either count just yet. But we shall see, and as I've noted, the New Testament is (and will be for a good long while) virgin territory for me, so to speak.
Thanks for stopping by, and I do hope to hear from you again!
I hope you do know that one of the passage of Genesis does say that GOd created all big things which some would say are dinosaurs. I heard somewhere there are passages of dragons in Job and Revelations. What is worse is that the Catholic church actually has a group of books that were not even allowed into the canon becaue they were too get this unreasonable. One of them is a story called BEl and the dragon. According to the tale, it gives a description of a Brontosaurus. The church at the time couldn't believe an animal would actually eat something given to it on a platter that contain tar and fire.
There is a passage in the Bible where a guy asks God how can he be sure his wife is faithful to him. God tells him to give her a concoction of poison to drink and if nothing happens, she is faithful, but if she dies, voila! Can you please direct me to the Book? I read about it in an American Atheists' website.
oh.
Orleyh,
I think this is the chapter you're looking for:
http://bs4a.blogspot.com/2008/01/numbers-5.html
As a suggestion, if you want to understand Judaism... read the old testament and disregard the new. If you want to understand Christianity (a general term) and the way most but not all Christians portray God, then skip the old testament for now and read the New Testament. Most of the "Christian" doctrines are based out of the Gospel of John and the book of Romans.
As a special request - try not to group all Christians into the same group. I do my best not to group all Atheists together as they are not all the same. For example just because one atheist goes out and commits murder doesn't make all atheists murderers. Judge each person as an individual regardless of their religious beliefs or lack of.
Jamie,
"try not to group all Christians into the same group."
That's an easy request, since I don't.
As to... "just because one atheist goes out and commits murder doesn't make all atheists murderers. Judge each person as an individual regardless of their religious beliefs or lack of."
Indeed. But I do periodically blog about heinous sins committed by religionists, because unlike atheists, pious people are commonly viewed as having a special edge in the morality department, and I give that view the mockery that, IMHO, it deserves.
The day when our discourse stops being littered with things like the President Elect's frequent conflation of religion with "morals,"
"values," and "culture," the need for such mockery will be gone.
You know, I much prefer the term religionists in regards to people who are so obviously not what they claim (the "christian" who molests children, commits murder, etc.). If someone claims to be something than their life will live up to their claim. A true Christian will not claim to be perfect, but rather claim to be imperfect but following Christ and trying to be more like Him.
On another note, what book are you dissecting now? I can't wait to hear your views on Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy... if you can stay awake through all the rules and consequences. ;)
Jamie,
Since May I've been stuck at Numbers 21. Real life is keeping me too busy to do a proper job of studying the Good Book for the time-being. I hope to pick this back up one day.
If you are looking for the Kingsom of the Lord than you are most welcome to visit the following website:
www.jakob5770.com
Jesus loves you!
Sebastian
One site that I would recommend as the very best for Atheists is the one that proves evolution with great science articles and debunks the Bible by exposing it as evil.
I would recommend the website:
WWW.SCIENCECLUBOFLONGISLAND.COM
Its no matter whether the atheists belief the bible or not. Both atheists & christians will be chased to !!HELL!!
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